Mark Holthe 0:05
This episode of the Canadian immigration podcast is sponsored by the Canadian immigration Institute, one of the best sources of video content on Canadian immigration to help you navigate your way through the Canadian immigration process. Head on over to the YouTube channel, where there's tons of video content, and you can join mark yes myself in a number of live video streams, Q and A's all designed to help you navigate your way through this crazy Canadian immigration process. When you're done there, like and subscribe and then head on over to the Canadian Immigration institute.com where you can find all those awesome DIY courses that I've been talking about. Thank you, Canadian immigration Institute. You are the sponsor of this amazing little podcast. You
Intro 1:07
the Canadian immigration process can be complex and frustrating. With the Canadian Immigration Department making it virtually impossible to speak to an officer. There are few places to turn to for trusted information, the Canadian immigration podcast was created to fill this void by offering the latest on immigration law, policy and practice. Please welcome ex immigration officer and Canadian immigration lawyer Mark Holthe as he is joined by industry leaders across Canada sharing insight to help you along your way.
Mark Holthe 1:49
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to a special edition of the Canadian immigration podcast. I'm Mark Holthe, your host, and I'm here with my guest host today. Betsy Kane, how are you? Betsy,
Betsy Kane 2:01
I'm very good. Thanks, Mark. Good to be with you.
Mark Holthe 2:06
Look at that. She's the she's the calm one. I'm the somewhat animated one for this episode. Okay, you guys, unless you've been living in some hole in a rock somewhere, you're probably following what was happening in the US on Tuesday, November the fifth, 2024 and of course, that was the US presidential election. And once again, Donald Trump is now, once again, the President Elect and Betsy, this is not our first time sharing with all our US friends down south who are now wondering what their future looks like and are considering a move, and that move may very well be to Canada. So this isn't the first time we've had this rodeo. Is it No? Been around a while? Yes, indeed. And if you go back and you want to listen to our take on this issue, oh my goodness, this is like November 9, 2016 so I guess it makes sense eight years ago, Betsy and I got together and we did our very first how to move to Canada following the US election. And so this is a second edition, and we are excited to share with all of you our thoughts, if you seriously are considering this. So Betsy and I are Canadian immigration lawyers. Betsy is in Ottawa. I'm out in Alberta. I'm actually located in Lethbridge, but my office is in Calgary. I'm enjoying the quieter life in southern Alberta. But this topic is one that has definitely been trending, moving to Canada, on X, on Facebook, on wherever, Instagram, it's definitely a trending topic, but this time, Betsy, the world in Canada is not nearly as welcoming as it used to be back in 2016 and so we're going to talk about options for you guys. But although these are options, there's no guarantee that any of them necessarily are going to be open for any US citizen who wants to come. So without getting too salesy, Betsy and I are here, and we can help to navigate the process if you want to book a consult with us, and we can actually apply what we have in Canada right now to your unique circumstances and see if there is something that fits, but tune in for the next probably half an hour or so, and Betsy and I are going to share with all of you some of the top options for either coming temporarily or making a permanent switch to your friends up north. Okay, Betsy, so let's start off by talking about a Trump, a Trump regime in the US, and what we know about it, I guess, from what they've said, the impact that it could have on immigration in the US, at least from what we've heard. Forward and the spillover to Canada. I want to kind of start off with that, and just to preface it, well, mass deportations is one of the things that comes to mind. So if they were to go forward with a plan of that nature, regardless of the cost, I was looking at, you know, listening to some reports on the cost of trying to remove every single person, they're not probably going to wait for their plane ticket. Some of them may very well consider other options. And what might those options be, although, understand, we are not proponents of this, but what do we? What do we, you know, one of the, what's one of the possibilities that we could see here in Canada?
Betsy Kane 5:39
Well, I mean, we can talk about skilled skilled workers and skilled immigrants and people with portable skills coming up to Canada. And I think the more concerning issue is the integrity of our borders and how Canada is going to manage an influx of even a small percentage of those who are precarious in the United States, and I think that's really important for us, and it's very different this time, because I think those in the United States, around the world and in Canada have seen the kind of policies and erratic, you know, erratic behavior by Mr. Trump, and we've already had our one of our premiers in Quebec express concerns about ensuring that the board that there is border integrity and that we can manage the flow. I mean, we've just come out of the announcement of new levels plan, and I think the Trump policies with regard to dealing with people who do not have status in the United States can completely sideline our government's objectives in modifying or contracting in terms of our intake. So that, to me, is the number one issue for Canada in terms of border integrity and our overall systems and our capacity to both absorb persons who are looking for sanctuary in Canada, as well as those who are looking to utilize our general programs to come to Canada through Express Entry, provincial nominees and for work permits that strain on that those lines of business will, I think, have an impact on the more conventional streams. So there's no you can't, you know, put them in silos. This is one department, processing at all, absolutely.
Mark Holthe 7:34
And one thing I want to bring up to our viewers, if you listen to the previous version or edition number one that we did eight years ago, Canada was not quite in the situation that it is now. And when we talk about systems being, you know, pressure placed on them, we have a considerably larger base of individuals here in Canada that are already vying for spots to remain permanently, who have come studied work, and now, just recently, on top of these annual levels plans that Betsy talked about, the the Liberal government has announced some pretty harsh measures, that's how I would describe them, that they're putting in place within our immigration system to reduce the number of temporary residents in Canada, to reduce the number of permanent residents that are allowed to transition into that status in Canada, which is the equivalent of your green card status in the US. And in the past, the doors were pretty open. The levels plans for the number of immigrants that Canada wanted to take every year were pretty healthy. They're pretty large, and they were growing up to the point of, I guess almost 500,000 is kind of the target that they're looking at. And now they're looking, over the next few years, to reduce that by more than 100,000 PRs per year. And that's on top of millions of people that have come that have looked to transition, and they're in various stages. Some are still studying. Some are working. Some are trying to find pathways. Some whose work permits are, you know, on the verge of expiring or are expiring, are being placed in some really difficult situations. So it's not like it was eight years ago, so the options that are available are fewer, and things are it is more difficult to come to Canada, even if you're a US citizen. So we want to just alert you to that and and point it out. But the reality is, there are still options. So let's talk maybe about the work permit options. Betsy, so this is and we're talking to us citizens here, not so much green card holders in the US, but US citizens who are considering a move to Canada. One of the ways that you can do it sooner is by seeking a work permit. So why don't we start from there, Betsy and just talk about some of the employer. Are specific options that that might be available.
Betsy Kane 10:05
Okay? Well, we all know about the Canada us free trade agreement, formerly NAFTA, and this offers a pathway for three year work permits for the traditional professions and certain technicians, as well as intercompany transfers, some investors and traders. This has not really changed much, even though Canada and the United States during the Trump administration had renegotiated the NAFTA agreement, the professions have not really changed, the traditional professions, and though the workforce, and you know, our labor market, has created all new types of occupations, and some aspects of immigration have have changed to recognize those new occupations. That's not the case with Cosma or Canada US trade agreement. Canada US, Mexico trade agreement. So it's really open to the traditional professions, and that's who I think will benefit the most in terms of work permits, because it gives you the opportunity to get a three year work permit right off the bat if you have an offer for that duration. So that's a really great option. The other really good option for some Americans is the international experience class for younger folks who want to come to Canada for a couple of years, perhaps write out part of the Trump administration, we have recognized organizations in the United States such as student work abroad and inter exchange will allow young people to come up to Canada for two years, provided it's properly managed. So that's another option.
Mark Holthe 11:56
No Betsy, just in terms of the the international experience classes, maybe you can talk just a little bit about caps and timing and the need to, you know, to act quickly, because these are not always necessarily unlimited, and so if there's an odd rush on these things
Betsy Kane 12:16
so, so right now is the time When people who are considering work permits under the International spirits class, which was generally for people under 35 this is the season where the program will reopen, and we're expecting it to reopen later this month, where one can put their name in a pot or put, you know, apply, with a view to getting a work permit in 2025 there are two streams, or there's two main streams, which is the unprofessional stream, which is where you need a job offer from a Canadian employer. Another alternative is something called the Working Holiday stream, where it's an open work permit, where you can come to Canada for 12 months and work in any sector in any region. So these options are available to people, generally under 35 if you're interested, I recommend that you Google the international experience class look at some of the regular, recognized organizations. I actually saw IRCC tweeted about it today, and, you know, starting totally getting people's interest. So this is the season I can expect that we'll see the quota, which is, I think it's quite generous, actually, but see that quota met earlier than it has in the past couple of years with coming out of COVID but this is definitely an option that I like to leverage for clients, even before utilizing the NAFTA, because it gives them more experience, especially if they can't fit within one of the traditional occupations and their age permits. So that's a really great option if your client or young person wants to experience Canada and kind of move out of the of the current environment.
Mark Holthe 14:04
And it's interesting, too. Betsy, you know the reason, just to clarify for the listeners, the reason that we have, or at least that option exists for Americans, is because Canadians have the ability to to go down there, and we have those agreements with many countries around the world and and because of that, you know, the process for applying is pretty streamlined. You know, it's not too often that Betsy and I assist, you know, clients with this, these types of work permits. We do on occasion. But ultimately, the the process is designed to be pretty streamlined and and pretty straightforward. So it's, it's something that you can do for sure,
Betsy Kane 14:44
yeah, definitely, definitely something that I recommend. But obviously recommend the client does it themselves. Sometimes employers use it to extend work permits. So people coming out of work permits and having some. The you know, challenges and extending it may offer some options there. Interestingly enough, I learned just very recently that one of the recognized organizations, ASIC, is no longer taking applications from Brazilians and Indian citizens, even though we're not talking about other citizens today. I just found that, and I was just like, shocked, because that was an RO that a recognized organization that entertained applications from youth from those countries, and that was has been shut down. It might be part of the overall contraction yes, that we are seeing across the board.
Mark Holthe 15:35
And that's another thing too. I want to point out with this, the desire of our current government in Canada to reduce the number of temporary residents. It's possible, even that the quotas, although they are, they do tend to be negotiated with other countries. It's possible that the quotas and the numbers of spots that are available could be, could be lower. So it's just more, more of an encouragement from us to look at this sooner rather than later. So don't delay if it's something you're considering doing. Yeah,
Betsy Kane 16:04
so the traditional Labor Market Impact Assessment, this would probably be at the bottom of my list right now, because the government recently, in the last couple of months, whether it's through a lower wage occupation or a higher wage occupation, have severely curtailed access to the labor market program. The Labor Market Impact Assessment is equivalent to the US, H, 1b program, where there's a labor market test to verify that there were no domestic applicants available. And this program right now is severely backlogged. It was even before the announcements, and we can expect realistically for an LMIA to come. I think you're looking, in my experience, I'm looking at six to eight months to get the LMIA from start to finish, not to mention what the processing times might be for somebody who needs a visa. Americans don't need the visa. So as soon as the LMIA is issued, they can present that LMIA letter at a port of entry and come right into Canada. The LMIA that I do find, which is the most facilitative and has not been impacted as of yet by any restrictions, as the global talent stream program, which is primarily designed for information technology professionals and engineers and some technicians. This is a program which offers a Labor Market Impact Assessment for up to three years in about two weeks. And there's two streams, the IT stream, as I call it, and then there's the global talent stream category, a which is basically open to any occupation. So it could be senior management, a special, very specialized skill set where the employer can get a referral from a designated partner recognized by immigration to vouch for the seniority and the unique skills that the person would bring to Canada, and this has been my savior in the last few years, because I really like this program. I like the officers, and I always do a really bang up job with this application. And the officers love my applications, because I basically prepare everything for them. And if you do a good job, you get your work permit, your LMIA fast. And you know, this is a matter of weeks in which you can turn around and get to Canada. So I highly recommend the global talent stream. I think it's been a success for our government. So right now, subject to some really drastic changes, I think that is one area where we can retain some comfort and knowledge that certain types of applicants will be able to access the Canadian labor market and get to Canada fast and global talent stream has been touted and heavily marketed in the United States by companies and partners who who've advertised this as a wonderful opportunity. It's still out there. And the only thing I'm going to say to our American friends is that this program has what I would call salesmen, and the salesman can sell you this global talent stream LMIA as other lmias are sold in the shady market, and you can see prices as high as 30 to 35,000 USD, you do not need to pay that. They get the same service from someone like Mark and I at a fraction of that cost, and you can do the exact same thing. So just buyer beware of people are looking for fast options, and they're told that, you know, they can somebody can, you know, organize their relocation, get them a job, take care of their payroll. Everything's going to be done. You just have to sign a check for 35 USD just Buyer beware. That's all I'm guessing.
Mark Holthe 19:54
And in many cases, just to reiterate and make it more clear. Clear to all of you, there is a high element of that that is illegal. So not only are you paying for a job, which is under the temporary foreign worker program, ESTC, it is illegal, but the people often administering those programs do not always have your best interests at heart, and sometimes there's those types of sales that result in no job at all. And so please exercise caution. If you're in doubt, reach out to Betsy or I. And I do want to point out too that in the description of this, the podcast, the show notes and the video, if you're watching this on YouTube, there will be a link to betsy's Consult page, and you guys know how to find me. Okay, Betsy, there's one other one that I wanted to bring up too, which on the global scene has gone through a little bit of adjustment, and that's the intercompany transfer provisions. So when would those be a good thing for Americans to consider.
Betsy Kane 21:04
Well, as we all know that Canada and the United States have a very close trading relationship, and many US companies and Canadian companies have offices and facilities in one another's countries, and so for the right candidate, it may be possible to move between entities and come to Canada on an intra company transfer for a period of up to five to seven years, depending on the type of occupation. But what the government has done in the last I guess, month or so is they've tailored or provided clarification on their guidance on how intercompany transfers are to be adjudicated by the officers, whether at the port of entry or at the visa offices, and they've actually constricted or restricted who can qualify into the various categories, whether it's somebody with specialized Knowledge, a senior manager, or a functional manager, they've made it tougher. And basically the hoops are are smaller and higher to get into. So I've always been a little reluctant to to use the intra company transfer specialized knowledge, because you have to show both specialized, unique and proprietary knowledge, and I think it's pretty difficult to meet those thresholds. And so I think where we're at today is that these type of applications are going to be scrutinized a lot more carefully, and one has to make a judicious decision as to whether they're going to utilize the intercompany transfer option immediately, or maybe use another option where they can get more experience with the company and through another category. But these this, these types of transfers, unless you're senior management, you will have a harder time qualifying, in my opinion, but they are possible, because we've got a lot of American companies with with, you know, what, presence in Canada, and this could be a conduit for people to come to Canada and, you know, ride out the trip Trump administration. And if they like it here, look to transitioning to permanent residents in the, you know, the medium to long term, because they will have a runway of between five and seven years to to key stay in Canada temporarily. And I want to just focus on the fact that you know people. Some people may be alarmed by the by the, you know, a second Trump presidency. And it doesn't mean that you have to relocate to Canada permanently. You can relocate temporarily to kind of just get your bearings and determine, you know a whether Canada is really for you, and whether at a later date, you know going back to the States is suitable for you and your family. So the work permit options do offer a an option for you to to extract yourself from the current environment and legitimately and legally work in Canada and continue to return to the United States as needed for family and business purposes. Yeah,
Mark Holthe 24:16
one thing I'll add to it. Lots of people say, Well, what about my spouse? Can they come? Can they work? And this is one that Betsy and I are not able to confirm 100% because our government has announced some upcoming changes that have not yet been solidified, but traditionally, individuals that are would fit under these work permit categories, which we would consider skilled occupations. Traditionally, spouses of those skilled workers on those permits who you know were in Canada or their permits were issued for at least six months, did have the ability to they themselves get open work permits. And so at this stage, that is still the law, and it's still possible. So if you are thinking about going down this path, I just had some consults with an individual just yesterday, Betsy, who seems to be one of the first ones to jump to this him and his family are hell bent on moving to Toronto, and so we are going to help to facilitate them, probably through Kusama, and they have an employer on both sides of the border. So the ICT is also a possibility, but they're probably not, you know, specialized enough to be considered under the specialized knowledge category. But he does fit, he's as an engineer within the professional category now. So spousal open work permits are an option. Now, I just want to kind of summarize and put all of this together for you guys. When we're talking about work permits, there are some that are truly open. You can get a permit and come and work for anyone. And that's those international experience Canada ones, the spousal open work permits that I talked about. And Betsy and I are by no means covering every work permit that you know that's that's available. We're just kind of hitting on the high points, but generally speaking, if you do want to come and work in Canada, you do need an employer that's supporting you. So just remember that that's, you know, those employer specific work permits are the lmias Betsy talked about the Kuzma work permit, the global talent stream. You know, professionals, inter company transfers. Those all require a Canadian employer up front, and that employer is specifically named on your permit, and that is the only employer you can work for until you get another permit. So just keep that in mind as we go forward. So that's the world of work. Now we're not going to spend much time on studying in Canada. If you're a young person and you're thinking, Man, I just I need to get out. Maybe I'll study abroad. That's still a possibility, although the government, once again, is restricting the numbers of people that can come in to study it's becoming more difficult, generally speaking, that is an option that's out there for some of you who are interested in paying three times the tuition that a Canadian would pay. And you know, but it is, it's there. But let's instead now Betsy transition to those who want to remain permanently. And I'll preface this with the fact that, generally speaking, right now, in our current highly competitive, extremely competitive world, it's pretty hard to qualify to immigrate directly to Canada without having some Canadian experience in the form of study, often work job offers. The only caveat I will put out there is for you fluent in French, and if you are fluent in French, you may very well have some options that we haven't talked about, including shifting back to the work permits, the Francophone mobility work permit, which is available to anyone who wants to come and work at any other province other than Quebec, but has a pretty basic level of French, and it's, you know, if we look at the Canadian language benchmark, it's, it's a five, and that's not a super, super difficult level to hit for the purposes of getting the work permit, but if you want to get those points, and Canada's Express Entry System, which is our main permanent resident process for skilled workers, has a points grid that really assesses your human capital. It looks at your language ability, your age, your education, your work experience, all those kinds of things, and then assigns points. And then there's bonus points if you've studied or worked in Canada, if you have a sibling in Canada, and we won't get into all the nitty gritty, but French, if you speak French at a NCLC or a CLB, kind of seven level in all abilities, reading, writing, speaking, listening, you can get a lot of bonus points. And those bonus points are usually depending upon the circumstances. Enough, through the general draws that they do every every few weeks, sometimes every week, but seems like it's every two weeks they do an invitation for people to to then apply for permanent residence and and, like I said, I'm not going to go through a whole bunch of details regarding Express Entry, other than it's a it's a process where people can fill out an application to submit a profile into the pool. They rank you according to those human capital factors I just talked about from that ranking. They then measure you against the other people floating around in that pool. And if your CRS score, your comprehensive ranking system score is at at or higher the level that they have set for that particular round of invitations, then you will receive an invitation to apply for permanent residence. So to summarize it all, if you don't have a job in Canada or experience, you're probably not going to qualify through that process, but if you speak French, you might have a shot. So that's that's kind of the Express Entry and the permanent resident options there are. There are programs for people who don't have experience, the Federal Skilled Worker Program, but like I said, it's pretty darn hard to qualify because you're just not scoring enough points. Because there are literally hundreds of 1000s of people in Canada vying for those same spots that have. That Canadian education, which has given them more points, has at least a year of Canadian work experience or more, and may have a job offer as well. So that's why it's so hard to compete. There's the Canadian Experience Class once you're in Canada and have one year of skilled work experience and have a decent level of language and and that's a separate program for those that are in Canada. And then just recently, our provincial nominee programs got some bad news with the annual levels plans. But historically, each province has their own programs that are designed to to nominate individuals they feel would be a good fit to economically establish in that province, and, you know, to help with the labor market. And the government recently announced that those nominations, those allocations to the provinces, are basically going to be split in half, so there's more people, once again, that are already working in those provinces that are filling a lot of those spots. But we just want to point this out, that direct immigration to Canada as a green card holder. The equivalent, which is our permanent residence process is pretty darn tough without first coming through one of those work permits that Betsy has talked about. Betsy. Do you have anything else to add on the permanent residence side of things? We've done quite a high 10,000 foot level, and you can go to probably either of our websites and learn more about the process, but anything else that you would like to add or tack on to this Express Entry slash permanent resident options,
Betsy Kane 31:32
I would just say that Quebec does have their own immigration system, and they as Well, have really curtailed and rolled back eligibility. So I know there's a lot of Americans that live close to the Quebec border, and there's a lot of movement of people in that region, but Quebec is not, you know, the the option, because they're, I would say their their systems and their programs are actually more restrictive than the federal ones, as well as the provincial nominees. So all across this country, from coast to coast, times are are challenging. They
Mark Holthe 32:11
sure are, and they're not going to get better, likely within the four year term of Donald Trump. So it's more of a long term game. If that's what you're really interested in doing, okay, I do want to shift. I want to shift to one last option. And it's kind of a little bit of tongue in cheek, but it is a reality that people have to consider, and that is for all of you out there who've been dating that nice little Canadian girl or boy, and you're considering, wow, you know, our relationship is progressing, and we're pretty serious, and Canada does have spousal sponsorship options. So if you are a US citizen and you have a Canadian citizen spouse, maybe the Canadian citizen spouse is living with you in the United States and is saying, Ah, let's go back to Canada for now. This is the route that you would follow. And the family sponsorship includes the spousal sponsorship. There's two. There's one spousal sponsorship under the Family Class, and the other is the spouse, common law partner class, for for individuals that are living with their spouse in Canada, and that's something I just want to point out as an as an option. Those of you who are considering marrying your your true love, it's always a good idea to to take a step back and give it a sober second thought before you rush off and get married, just so that you can, you know, move to Canada with your new partner, bexy, I'm closing in on 30 years of marriage, and although my wife is a you know, well, she's perfect, I'm not, and fortunately for me, she she deals with my quirks and idiosyncrasies, but that's not always the case, so you don't want to rush into anything. So this is if you're young, this is your dad talking to you. Make sure you know what you're doing. But if you have a relationship with the Canadian and it looks serious and you're you want to tie the knot and move forward, family sponsorship is a possibility, and it's interesting. I'll add some of the pros and cons. Well, obviously I've talked a little bit about the cons. You don't want to get yourself into something just for immigration purposes. But one of the pros is that if you do choose to come to Canada and be sponsored, if your Canadian citizen spouse is living with you in the US, you can actually start the process before you you know, while the sponsor, the Canadian citizen is in the US and and then, once permanent residence is obtained, you can then move. And right now, I'd say processing times are about 10 months if, as an well as an American, you have some flexibility of just packing things up with your Canadian citizen spouse and and traveling to Canada and seeking entry as a genuine visitor, that is a possibility. Committee and having worked on the border as a as an officer in a previous life, the officers tend to be pretty facilitative. In those types of situations, with a Canadian who's returning to Canada with their US citizen spouse who is going to be coming in as a visitor, as long as you've got all your ducks aligned, they tend to be pretty facilitative. Unlike on the other side of the border, where if you say you're going to do that with your you know us, citizen sponsoring spouse and you're a Canadian, the presumption of immigrant intent can can cause problems. Let's just put it as that. But in Canada, we have dual intent, so you can come as a visitor and intend to be sponsored by your spouse. So if you are going through that process, and you're you choose to go through the spouse common law partner class from within Canada, about, you know, I think, what is it about four months now for kind of the stage where you can get a work permit, Betsy, for those programs, it's, it's a little bit of time. But the current process sometimes are about about 10 months, I think, for right around there, for both programs, and you're able to secure permanent residents. And the best part, Betsy, what becomes of a US citizen who is traveling abroad with their Canadian citizen spouse and they're not in Canada after they get their permanent residence? What's the good thing? I'm really setting you up here. What's the positive thing about being a permanent resident, traveling abroad
Betsy Kane 36:25
their status, so long as they're ordinarily resident with their spouse, wherever they be, wherever they may reside. But I want to go back to what she said. And okay, here we go. Caveats.
Mark Holthe 36:35
Yeah, okay, Betsy is going to point out all the things I'm kind of fit loose and Fancy Free. We'll let Betsy give you the straight goods on the challenges. Well, I'm
Betsy Kane 36:45
just going to be things. May be happy go lucky in Lethbridge, Alberta. But what I'm going to say to you is, yes, generally, you recommended there are the option for people to pack up and come to Canada and be with their spouse. But I want to reiterate. We probably have said this in different venues a million times. You need to know the port of entry that you're going to because every port has a personality, and not all ports are equal. And you need to get advice before coming in with the U haul and so particularly in our region in Eastern Ontario, I would never say to pack up and come to the port of entry. Unfortunately, during my career, I've had to dismantle some pretty painful scenarios that have arisen as a result of people not having fully understood where they're going and what they're doing when they approach the port of entry with the intent to do an in Canada application for sponsorship. So I'm just going to leave that there. The other thing is, while Americans can start the process from inside of the United States prior to coming to Canada, the one piece which sometimes gets lost, and I just had a consultation on it yesterday, is that the sponsor, the Canadian and the American, need to show intent to reside in Canada once the immigrant visa is issued to their non Canadian spouse, and I take this part of the application quite seriously, because I think that's where the risk is in terms of preparing an application. So I just had a doctor yesterday, and we were, we were talking about the relocation, and I kept saying, Well, do you have evidence that you are, you know going to be winding up your practice in the United States and coming to Canada. And she goes, Well, I can't do that until I know that the visa is issued. I said, well, there are things you can do. Have you registered College of Physicians and Surgeons in Ontario? Have you looked at real estate? Have you, you know? Have you done anything? She goes, Well, she also teaches medicine in the United States, will have you applied to the universities. These are other pieces of indicia where you can prove that you are planning, even if you don't wrap up your affairs. So it's not 100% you need to show that you are planning to remain in Canada. Canada will not give you the visa so that you can go off into, you know, Hawaii and all over the world and retain that permanent residence without that intention to live. So while we discuss the benefits of having a spouse and ordinarily residing with them once the immigrant visa is issued, and that's obviously the benefit, you need to ensure that your application is packed with cogent supporting documents of the intention to reside in Canada at the time the application is being filed. Yeah, so that's that's good. Those are my two caveats.
Mark Holthe 39:50
Oh, that's good. Thank you for bringing that up. Betsy. I'll give you my own practical example. I I took a file on from another lawyer when i. Going to firm, and that other lawyer had had departed, and so I hadn't submitted the original application, and then the client contacted me, and any they received, they received a procedural fairness letter. Well, it was more of an ADR, additional document request, wanting additional proof that the individual was going to be moving back with their spouse, and he was in oil and gas. He was actually living in Moscow. His wife was was Russian, and he had property. He had, you know, they would come visit frequently family, and they'd reached a stage where he said, You know what, it's better for us just to live in Canada. But his work schedule, Betsy would have him spending 60% of his time in Russia and 40% in Canada. And the officer adjudicating that matter felt that that was not sufficient, notwithstanding the fact he had mortgage, he had he filed his taxes in Canada. They were traveling, and his wife would be living in Canada. So what happened? Well, we had to appeal it, and eventually it was successful. But it was a, you know, this is just another, you know, reiteration of how important it is these, lots of times people will get the feeling that these puzzle sponsorship applications are just, oh, they're a breeze. There's no issue. And I also want to point out with with all of this, you know, we're, we're definitely Betsy. Now, we've been at this game for for many, many years. But one thing we've learned is that just because the government says it's straightforward and easy doesn't make it so and in the past, in the early days of our practice, they were pretty darn facilitative. So if you submit an application that wasn't quite complete, or you made mistakes, or things like that. They would send back a deficiency letter and said, Hey, you forgot to sign this form, or you need to give us this you didn't include your marriage certificate, which is kind of important in a spousal sponsorship. And they'd give you an opportunity to send it in and perfect the application. Well, folks, flash forward 20 years or 25 whatever, to today, that is most definitely not the case, so they've learned that processing times can be listed at a far shorter time period if an application is not complete and they just simply return it as incomplete, versus holding it and waiting for the back and forth with clients to perfect it. So when you're submitting a spousal sponsorship, are really any of these work permit options or permanent resin application options that were described? They have absolutely zero tolerance for mistakes, so we call it the one touch policy. And essentially, if there's a deficiency, they just send it back, and then you're back to square one, submitting it again. So Betsy and I have had lots of discussions over why, in the world, we're still practicing immigration and not doing something else with our lives. I was talking about maybe joining my brother's arborist company, you know, cutting trees down and stuff, and helping, you know, with with the planting and grooming of trees. But I'm not quite there, but we'll see, I guess, what happens with our election next year, Betsy, and then maybe, I don't know, Europe, South America. I guess we'll see where, where might be a good place to live. But that's the
Betsy Kane 43:15
number one issue that keeps me up at night. Did I make a human mistake? I cannot be human anymore. And I feel like, I don't know. I just like, I, you know, you have to put in your retainer agreements that you know human error happens, and you know this, this business has always been about perfection, and it's more so ever than ever before. And I find that the most difficult, you know, we have situations now because of this one touch policy, or this perfection requirement that you're putting in the application materials, and you're putting in digitally signed and wet sign, and you're putting like this color scan and brown and black and white scan, and it's just so frustrating, because you have to cover your bases to ensure that an application doesn't return, because if it does return, somebody's options may be completely for forever closed.
Mark Holthe 44:15
Yeah, history, yeah. And it's unbelievable stress, and we definitely don't want to fear monger, right? Like, that's not what Betsy and I are here for. But,
Betsy Kane 44:23
no, no, but I'm just saying this. This is what it means. It means, yeah, this
Mark Holthe 44:26
is a reality. Like, that's why we're saying it. And so people need to understand that, yeah, you have to get these applications perfect. You have to take the time. And I never submit a single application without having someone else review it, because human error is natural, and like Betsy said, it's something that keeps us up at night, and it's one of the reasons I even changed the nature of my practice. I used to have assistants and paralegals and consultants who worked with me and and I just never found that they cared as much about it as I did. And if you forget to upload a color copy of a German police certificate. Ticket and your Express Entry application, and it gets, you know, it's a black and white one that gets accidentally uploaded. You have to have some tough conversations with your clients, and, you know, often for me, that ends up me giving them their money back and trying to correct it. But there was a time period where I used to dread receiving emails that had an E in front of them, which were emails from the government on the Express Entry files, especially in the early days, because we just didn't. We weren't used to them being so cruel and but that's the way it is now. And so now i i have shifted my practice, and I tend to work more directly with the individuals, which is not as efficient, but it helps me to sleep at night, because I know I've looked at it and we've gone through it forensically. So that's kind of what the options are. You find folks to the south. And you know, I guess the only last one I'll point out is something our previous Immigration Minister, Sean Fraser, heralded as this amazing new thing for our country, which, of course, they've now pretty much backtracked on, but that is this concept of a digital nomad. So I bring it up just as a warning, as much as just alerting you to its existence, it's nothing more than the traditional visitor visa, you know, process that we have already, but individuals who choose to come to Canada do have the ability to stay and remain for, you know, as a temporary period of time, as visitors, while they continue to work for their employers overseas. Thus the digital nomad, and it's become quite popular amongst, you know, the younger generations to work and travel. I in fact, had an associate who worked with me, who spent her evenings hiking the mountains of Patagonia down in Chile, and then switched over to Argentina, and she was in Europe and all over and so this is, you know, this is a way of life. So some people that you know are maybe thinking, hey, maybe this is what I should do, is just travel the world for a few years as a digital nomad. You could potentially stop off in Canada and do that. But once again, caveat, you've got officers that you're dealing with on the borders who have certain visions of what a temporary resident is and what a visitor is. And if you say, Yeah, I'm just moving to Canada. How long you gonna be here? I'm not quite sure. You know, this whole Trump thing's got me up in arms and and so I'm thinking of, you know, coming to Canada just to get away from it. That may not be the best answer to give to the border officers when you're when you're driving or flying into Canada. So you need to have a plan. You need to have things sorted out and make sure that you, yeah, you've got all of your your ducks in a row, as we say, so, that an officer isn't questioning the true temporary nature of your entry. All right. Well, Betsy, any closing kind of remarks that you want to add in, or any thoughts or pieces of advice you want to share with our our fine friends to the South who are considering Canada as a potential option in the next, near future.
Betsy Kane 48:10
Well, Canada has traditionally touted its universal health care system, and the reason we're in a period of contraction in our immigration programs is because our social services are currently strained. And so for Americans coming to Canada who have heard about our free health care, what I can say to you is that accessing that free health care is really difficult right now. And you know, for those people who need access to a doctor, which is pretty much everybody, it's very difficult to get yourself into a family physician. And so retaining access to medical professionals in the states might be advisable because things are pretty tough across this country in terms of getting access. If you're okay with going to a walk in clinic for the odd cold or, you know, scrape, that's fine, but it's not what it used to be. And I recently lost my family doctor for to retirement a couple of months ago, and I was really concerned, and was considering private health care, and that was going to be my only option. And so be it. And I'm fortunate enough that I could have afforded to do that, but luckily I, by some miracle, I got a family doctor this week, so I'm really grateful, and I feel for all the people that are coming to Canada, whether it's 500,000 or 300,000 a year, and all the temporary residents, getting yourself access to primary care is very difficult in Canada right now, and that's the only caveat I would give. It's not really
Mark Holthe 49:58
that's really good to bring up. Do Betsy, because doesn't matter whether you're trying to find a doctor in Ottawa, Ontario or Lethbridge, Alberta, it's the same. And I've got a number of friends that are doctors. And you know, even for my wife, Betsy, she was unable to find a suitable doctor here down in Lethbridge, and so she travels to Calgary to see her doctor, which is it a little over two hour drive. And so this is, this is the world. And I had a conversation with a couple just earlier this week, who there. She just found out she's expecting, and they have their permanent resident there. There were some of the H, 1b open work permit holders. They have their permits, and now they're trying to figure out, okay, well, we're thinking, maybe we like to move to Canada, but you know, what should we do? And I had to bring that up to them. I said, Look, you know, you need to maintain that coverage and in the US as best you can. And because they're each one bees right now and and just be under understanding that, yes, there's universal health care, but it is universally challenging to access, and there just is not enough doctors. And then another family had a child with some developmental conditions. Well, the heart condition that required, or is going to be requiring, some surgery and and probably ongoing care now, not probably to the extent where it's going to be excessive demand if the surgery happens in the US, but it's still a factor, and then ongoing care for them, and you know, and they are US citizens looking to come up. So I'm really glad that you brought that up, and it's a reality, and it's not meant to scare you guys. You know, it is possible to find doctors, it is possible to to access the health system. There's emergency rooms and places that you can go, you know when you when you need medical care. But just understand it's not quite as well. It's pay as you go to some extent in the US as well, if you've got good health insurance versus otherwise. But it's, it's, yeah, accesses can be a challenge. So so be aware of that. All right. Well, thank you so much, Betsy, for joining me in this, this reprisal, this second edition of how to move to Canada that's dedicated to our friends to the south post this election. And you know, it's interesting, Betsy, we never really did it for the last one, so we took a skip. So there's one, there's the last two US election. We never did one. Maybe we should have, I don't know. Maybe there's people that were looking to move, you know, because Biden was elected. I don't know, but, but it just seems like this is so, so well timed to do these, you know, with the with the current, current election going on, and, well, the the results of the current election, and it'll be interesting to see. But from my perspective, this is nice information, and there will be some of you that are really, truly interested in making the move. And maybe now you like, you know, Betsy said, maybe now this might be the time where you take the plunge. But I found that most people like home, and they figure things out. Yes, the
Betsy Kane 53:01
United States has been a source of great talent for Canada, and Canada has sought, over the years to target those in the United States so they are a high caliber of immigrant that Canada needs. And I'll just leave it at that.
Mark Holthe 53:16
No, absolutely. All right. Thank you, everyone. And if you like what you hear, make sure that you subscribe and and leave a review for the podcast. You can find it on iTunes or Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And also, if you want to look at my ugly mug and and see Betsy and I talking in in real time here, head on over to the YouTube channel the Canadian immigration Institute, and you can watch it there. All right, thanks so much. Betsy, awesome having you back, and we will see you guys again soon. Take care.
Intro 53:51
Thank you for listening to the Canadian immigration podcast, your trusted source for information on Canadian immigration law, policy and practice, if you would like to book a legal consultation, please visit www dot Holthe law.com you can also find lots more helpful information on our Canadian immigration Institute YouTube channel, where you can join mark on one of his many Canadian immigration live Q and A's, see you soon, and all the best as you navigate this crazy world we call Canadian immigration. You.
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