Speaker 1 0:05
This episode of the Canadian immigration podcast is sponsored by the Canadian immigration Institute, one of the best sources of video content on Canadian immigration to help you navigate your way through the Canadian immigration process. Head on over to the YouTube channel, where there's tons of video content, and you can join mark yes myself in a number of live video streams, Q and A's all designed to help you navigate your way through this crazy Canadian immigration process. When you're done there, like and subscribe and then head on over to the Canadian Immigration institute.com where you can find all those awesome DIY courses that I've been talking about. Thank you, Canadian immigration Institute.
Mark Holthe 0:50
You are the sponsor of this amazing little podcast. You
Unknown Speaker 0:59
music.
Speaker 2 1:05
The Canadian immigration process can be complex and frustrating with the Canadian Immigration Department making it virtually impossible to speak to an officer. There are few places to turn to for trusted information. The Canadian immigration podcast was created to fill this void by offering the latest on immigration law, policy and practice. Please welcome ex immigration officer and Canadian immigration lawyer Mark Holthe as he is joined by industry leaders across Canada sharing insight to help you along your way.
Mark Holthe 1:51
Welcome back everyone to another episode in our time's up series. This one is targeted specifically to all of you post grad work permit holders out there, and it is entitled. No there are no extensions for post grad work permits. I'm joined today with my co host, Alicia, back when Bucha, how are you, Alicia, I'm
Alicia Backman-Beharry 2:13
doing well, Mark, and we really wanted to come back and talk to post grad work permit holders who are struggling right now, who are trying to figure out what to do, and unfortunately, to kind of break the myth around these post grad work permit extensions. And it's super important that people listen to this and understand what's going on.
Mark Holthe 2:35
Yeah, it's an interesting world that we're in right now, because many post grad work permit holders right now have gone through or seen previous policies that repeatedly saved them, and we know those past 18 month policies were designed to recognize the contributions of people throughout the pandemic, recognize the challenges with with the permanent resident options and the limitations, and now we're in a situation where our government has made the decision that they need to reduce the number of temporary residents in Canada. And realistically, the figures we're looking at are upwards of a million. And so if we're factoring this in, and we're so that's going to require some significant steps by the government, if that's the goal they want to achieve, and and how they accomplish it, Alicia is going to be it's going to create a lot of pain. Let's just leave it. Leave it at that for people that are here. So, yeah, no extensions for post grads. Maybe you can provide a little bit of context as we get started here.
Alicia Backman-Beharry 3:50
Yeah. And so when I say there are no extensions for post grad work permit holders, I can hear a whole bunch of people saying, no, no, Alicia, that's not correct. I had an extension. I already had my post grad work permit extended one time. And yes, you did, but it technically wasn't a post grad work permit extension. What it was was a temporary public policy under Section 25 for people who had valid post grad work permits within a certain period of time, so they weren't actually changing the rules on the work permit issuance, on who is eligible for a post grad work permit, because you're only eligible once for a post grad work permit when you've completed an eligible course of studies at a designated learning institution, and you've applied for that post grad work permit within a certain period of time of graduating. So they didn't actually change those rules. What they did was they said, Hey, we're going to do under Section 25 a temporary public policy to grant certain people extended status in some situations. And just like you said, Mark, those days are gone. And so we can look at the codes, we can look back at the LMI exemption codes and see all. Oh, there's all the expired temporary public policies under Section 25 that in the past, had saved people who had PT, WPS. That is no longer the case. And so the regular rules apply, and the regular rules apply, and that means that you have potentially the opportunity to have one post grad work permit, and that is it, and that is all. There is one exception, and that's what I wanted to talk to people about right now. And the first thing I want people to do is to go check two documents. I want you to go and check your post grad work permit itself and read what is on the bottom of your post grad work permit. And I want you to go check your passport. And why do we want people to check these things Mark
Mark Holthe 5:44
Well, sometimes people don't realize that if your passport is expiring a little bit earlier, at least earlier than the full duration you're entitled to on your post grad work permit, then you may still have the ability to recapture a little bit of time,
Alicia Backman-Beharry 6:02
exactly. And so if, for some reason, when you applied for your original postgrad work permit, your passport happened to be expiring sooner. So let's say you were eligible for a full three years, but for some reason, you only got two, and you don't even maybe you didn't even realize why. This is why we're saying check what your passport expiry date is, and check what the duration of your PGWP was. And if you look at the bottom, it should say this work permit was issued till the end of passport validity. And if it says that on there, then you could do exactly what Mark says is apply for a recapture of time. And if you check IRCC, can I renew my post grad work permit, it's going to say no, except if there's a recapture of time, and then it gives you a link to specifically how you go about doing a recapture of time on a PGWP. And be careful, because this is one of the only circumstances where you have to apply on paper, and you've got to specifically tell them that you are applying for a recapture of time, because your original PGWP was only issued to passport validity. And of course, you have to have a new passport. You have to have a passport that's a new passport that's going to be valid for the rest of the time that you want to recapture. Yeah. And
Mark Holthe 7:19
I can tell you that many, many people Alicia make the mistake of filing it through their IRCC secure account. And recently, I had a consultation with a couple who we are actually assisting with their permanent resident application, and they received a refusal on their recapturing application. Because I believe they filed it online. And the challenge was they didn't retain us to assist with that. They'd already filed it that, you know they they said they had it all under control. I never asked too many questions. And it's a little bit of an interesting situation right now, because they received a passport request, the ecoper portal request at the same time as receiving the refusal on the work permits and so, and there is a job offer involved, and it's a little bit messy and and so we're kind of working through a few things with with respect to that, but people just, you know you have to, and not only do you need to file via paper, but you need to make darn sure that you're explaining to the officer exactly what you're doing, because if you just fill it out normal and actually in, you know, I've had other situations where people have used expiring or expired Labor Market Impact Assessments in the same way, where they have time that they were not fully granted originally because of their expiry of their passport. You know, sometimes people just submit it and then an officer looks at it and says, Well, your LMIA is expired, and they don't realize that you're actually trying to recapture and so I recommend that people really, really pay close attention, and a properly worded cover letter explaining what's going on is absolutely essential with these applications. And I guess one other little tip is make sure you make a complete copy of the entire application and send it in such a way that there is a receipt or a courier confirmation of delivery, so that you have proof that it actually arrived where it was supposed to arrive, because some things disappear. And
Alicia Backman-Beharry 9:23
the other thing I'm going to say, Mark is do not go to the port of entry to try to do this.
Mark Holthe 9:30
Those days are gone, folks, no pgwps at the ports of entry. Okay, so we know that there's no extensions of post grads, we can possibly recapture time if there's some available. So what do people do? Alicia, let's transition to some of the you know options, I guess.
Alicia Backman-Beharry 9:52
And so the first, easiest option is, are you eligible for a different category of open work permit? So that we know? So a post grad work permit is open. You can work for any employer in any province and for any occupation. It is more difficult to try to find a closed work permit, and we'll talk about that next. So what can you do? What are the other open work permit options that could be available to you? And so this is something we talk about with people who've booked a consult or who want to hire us, who are trying to figure out what their options are. So one of the first things is you can start to ask, Well, do you have a spouse? Does your spouse have a certain type of work permit that would make you eligible for an open spousal work permit? And there is a big caveat with this, because they're changing these rules as well.
Mark Holthe 10:43
Yeah. And I also want to point out too, Alicia, sometimes people, you know, they come as as single individuals, they meet someone here in Canada, Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and they enter into a spousal relationship. Maybe they've been living together for a year, and they would be classified as common law. Spousal open work permits, at least in the sense that Alicia is talking about, are not available to spouses of Canadian citizens or permanent residents in the way that they are for a foreign worker, skilled foreign worker. Otherwise, there are open work permits for spouses in the context of a spousal sponsorship application within Canada. But what we're talking about here is individuals who their spouse is either an international student or a foreign worker in Canada, at least right now, until our government lays out exactly what their intentions are with these spousal open work permits. Yeah.
Alicia Backman-Beharry 11:39
And so two things. One is just like Mark said, a student, and so we know that they've already narrowed the eligibility for open work permits for spouses of students to people who the principal applicant, the student is in a master's program or a PhD program or a certain professional program. So it used to be that most spouses of students, whatever the program, could get an open spousal work permit. They have now narrowed that, and so it's only spouses of master students, PhD or certain professional programs, that are eligible for that open spousal work permit. So be careful on that. Just like Mark said, there are changes afoot for spouses of temporary foreign workers, so either low skilled temporary foreign workers or high skilled temporary foreign workers. And right now it is possible for spouses, as long as they can show that the principal applicant is working and will be working for at least another six months, that you could potentially satisfy that open spousal work permit eligibility. However, they have said in their September 18 announcements that they are going to be changing eligibility come the fall, so before the end of the year, they said that they are going to restrict for workers only, the spouses of workers who are professionals, managerial or in certain in demand jobs. And we don't know what those are yet? Yeah,
Mark Holthe 13:01
we don't. And so with this, these spousals, obviously, that's number one option. The other option that we should also talk about Alicia are the bridging open work permits. And there's a fair amount of misunderstanding with respect to these. At their very core is that you're already eligible and have submitted an application for permanent residence through one of the available programs, one of the economic programs. And the challenge sometimes, is that when you're filing these bridging open work permits, you have to wait, depending upon the program, for an acknowledgement of receipt. Now, one advantage to those who are going through Express Entry and have filed an eapr, is that that acknowledgement is pretty instantaneous. So if you're someone who is running out of time, and you get your ITA and your work permits expiring, and you work as quickly as possible to get your electronic application for permanent residence submitted, usually within minutes of submitting, you'll get a letter back your your your acknowledgement of receipt for your permanent residence that has instructions on filing bridging open work permits. And so, you know, for those who are really under a tight time frame, that's a very positive development. But if you're going through, say, a P and P program that's not associated with Express Entry, and it's a program that goes through the PR portal, then you're in a different world, a different situation. We don't really have our 204 C letters, you know, on our list of work permits, but it probably makes sense to talk about those, as well as the post grad or, sorry, the bridging open work permit. But in the case of people who are filing through the PR portal, you actually have to wait until you receive the acknowledgement of receipt, which can be a number of months before it comes back. And if you're in a situation and you're fortunate that the province that is nominated. To do. In some cases, they will issue these are 204 C letters, which are basically to support the issuance of a work permit, because your role with the company is it's urgent, it's important that you maintain work status until your PR is approved. Well, in those cases, then you can use that 204 C letter to apply for a work permit to kind of bridge the gap, like the bridging open work permit, but that's an important distinction for people,
Alicia Backman-Beharry 15:26
yeah, and, and this is something mark where people get it wrong all the time, that there's there are two types of bridging work permits. One is a bridging open work permit, one is a bridging closed work permit. And that 204, C letter, you really have to check your nomination, and it'll say whether on that nomination, it'll have a little table at the top of the letter, and it says whether there is a restriction on employment. And so if it says restriction on employment, yes, then be super, super careful, because that means that you cannot apply for an open work permit. You must apply for a closed bridging work permit that is going to be tied to your employer, because if you lose that, you might lose your eligibility under whatever PNP program you applied under. So there are a lot of nuances. If you're not sure whether to apply for a bridging or closed or open work permit, please book a consult, because this is a complex area,
Mark Holthe 16:20
yeah, and one thing I want to talk about, which it's so hard, Alicia, I having consults with people you know, and talking to them about their employers. Not all employers are created equal, everyone. Some employers are quite supportive and facilitative. Who will go to bat for you, they will provide, you know, whatever support in for in the form of formal, you know applications or forms, or you know whatever may be, but not all of them. And in fact, some will not support. Won't give anything more than a reference letter. And when you have this 204 C letter that's issued with your nomination, unless your employer is willing to submit a profile, sorry, a job offer completed in the in the employer portal, and obtain, basically register that job offer, and the employer portal is what I meant. You know, you can't just submit the work permit without that, and you need to get that a series number from them and use that to apply for your work permit. And so it just breaks my heart. I've had so many consults like on just Monday was, was Remembrance Day. There was just such a high need for people looking for help. I just decided to just open up my calendar and work on Monday. And I had, I think, nine, nine consults, and three of them were just heartbreaking situations where employers, they were kind of supportive, but they still wouldn't do, you know, anything more than providing a reference letter, and they're just stuck in limbo. And we know of other, you know, other clients of ours there where employers, it's just, I don't know what the rationale is, but they're just not quite as supportive as an individual needs. And if you can't get them behind you, then it doesn't matter all this other stuff, it kind of washes away. So, really tough, really tough. Well, all right, and
Alicia Backman-Beharry 18:18
that's a good segue mark to employer specific work permits, to these closed work permits. So really, if your employer is not going to be on board, if they are not going to help you by pursuing an LMIA, or if there's an LMIA exempt category that you're eligible for either under the imp so the international mobility program a free trade agreement, just like you said, Mark, if there is our 204 C letter to support that bridging closed work permit, the employer has to take an extra step. They have to file an employer portal offer, if it's an LMIA exempt closed work permit situation, or they have to be willing to go through the whole LMIA process before you would be eligible to apply for a new category of work permit. So these are the this is kind of going up the difficulty scale in terms of what you need, but these are the next options. Is if you do happen to have a supportive employer, is there an option for you under a imp program? One of them might be a mobility Hunka fund work permit. And so if you are hitting those NCLC level fives and your employers outside of the province of Quebec, and they're willing to do that employer portal offer, that might be a fantastic option for you to transition to a closed employer specific work permit to get yourself more time, to gain more points to have more years of high skilled Canadian work experience.
Mark Holthe 19:45
You know, one thing that has come up recently as well Alicia is, is this concept of dual intent, and sometimes people are concerned and worried that, oh, if I have a permanent resin application in the queue, you know. So how is that going to affect my ability to extend my work permit? Is, you know, are they going to start to question my temporary intent? Because I've actually applied for permanent residence. And in fairness, when you're outside of Canada and you're applying for the first time for a work permit, when you have a permanent resident application in the queue, it can be a factor that can make it a little more difficult for the work permit to be approved, but within Canada, generally speaking, the concept of dual intent is very well received and accepted by IRCC if you're here. And obviously, one of the pillars of applying for permanent residence and waiting whatever length of time it is to process is that you maintain your temporary status in Canada. And so I just want to touch on that briefly, that you know, if you are a post grad work permit holder and you are looking at applying for permanent residence, or you have a profile in the pool, or you're, you know, you have the good fortune of actually having an ITA, or even have submitted your eapr, you always have the obligation and requirement to maintain your status in Canada, and so never let that fall. Let yourself fall at a status, and just make sure that you are making the steps that you need, or taking the steps you need to apply for that work permit and
Alicia Backman-Beharry 21:18
Mark. What I usually tell my clients, you're absolutely right, is just make a submission. Acknowledge it, say, under Section 22 I believe that I have a valid dual intent. I have filed for permanent residence. At the same time I have been complying and I intend to comply with my temporary obligations. I have enough money saved up to support myself, and I could go back to my home country if and when required to do. So,
Mark Holthe 21:40
yeah, okay, let's draw let's dive a little deeper into the employer specific work permit. So we've kind of covered some of the Open Options, but let's talk about the options and the realities of this new world within the temporary foreign worker program and to a lesser extent, the international mobility program, which are the two that administer work permits for foreign nationals. So how do these employer specific work permits actually work? Many post grad work permit holders are not used to it. They've just had this open work permit that allows them to work subject to any medical limitations or restrictions, to pretty much work wherever they want and accept any kind of employment. There's no restrictions on wage or location of work or the employer themselves, or even their job. But maybe touch on this briefly, and I guess I will also point out to everyone listening, go back to Episode 100 where Alicia and I started a business, a kind of a business focus series on the temporary foreign worker program, these various work permits under the international mobility program. So definitely go back and listen to those. If you want to get a really high level but or a really dive deep into the areas, but at a high level. Can you give us a little overview? Alicia, yeah.
Alicia Backman-Beharry 22:53
And so just like we said that, with open work permits, you can work for any employer, in any location, in any occupation, a closed work permit is going to have restrictions, and so usually you are only working for one specified employer, and most of the time it will be in one location or a couple locations for where that employer is based, with their offices. And usually it'll specify an occupation other than things like the mobility tastes like, aka Fund, which you know you can work in various occupations, but you are specific to that one employer at a particular location where that employer has offices. So a closed work permit in general is one where you are tied to that employer who's submitting that offer of employment through the employer portal. They have to do that piece. They have to get at a number. They pay a $230 employer compliance fee, and then once they give you that a number, and you put your application package together, just like other implied or maintained status situations, you want to have that all submitted prior to your PGWP expiring, so that you don't have a gap in your employment, and hopefully, ideally, you can continue to work if for some reason, you can't find an employer who's going to go through that that imp specific, employer specific offer, and that's not available to you. Maybe there's no free trade agreement that applies. Maybe you don't speak French. Maybe there's nothing else under the imp for you or the IEC. So that's one of the international experience. Canada is one of the main international mobility program work permits that might be available to people. So that's something to check to if your country's on the list. But if none of that's available to you, then the bad news is that lmias Just got a great deal more difficult. And so this is true for low wage lmias, and it's also true for high wage lmias. And so for low wage lmias, we know that there is now a refusal to process. And so if the area in. Which you will be doing the work has an unemployment rate of higher than 6% then it's just a no go. There is unless you're in a couple restricted occupations. But if you're not working in healthcare and you're not working in construction, then probably this refusal to process is going to apply to you, and it just basically means there's no LMIA option if you're in a low wage situation. Yeah,
Mark Holthe 25:23
and when you add to that, one other restriction is dependent upon how many foreign workers on lmias are already employed by the employer. And so if you fall within that, that low wage category, and you're in an area where unemployment rates are not 6% they're lower, so there isn't that barrier. If your employer is currently employing a number of foreign workers on LMIA, and it's greater than 10% then it's also going to be a bar to apply. And so these changes are going to have a massive impact on the ability of many post grad work permit holders to extend their permits, to try to gain more time, even when your employer loves you and wants to support you, they will actually be prevented from doing so because of these new measures that have been put in place. And once again, the underlying goal is to reduce the number of temporary residents in Canada by this large number that I talked about before. And so that's, you know what? When you're looking at the options available, it's, you know, for many people, this is going to be really, really hard to swallow. Very, very hard to swallow. The
Alicia Backman-Beharry 26:41
other bad news, of course, is that as of October, they announced the changes to the high wage LMIA. And so what they literally did was they said there is now a 20% uplift. And so when we look at the median wage rates for every province across the board, that usually used to be the demarcation that was the deciding factor between what's considered low wage and what's considered high wage. So for example, in Alberta, $29.50 used to be the cutoff line. If you got paid less than 2950 it was a low wage. If you got paid more than 2950 it's a high wage. LMIA, well, they've said, Now wait a minute, there's a 20% uplift. And so, oh yeah, yeah. So as of November 8, now they've increased that again, so they have actually now put it on there. So that's great they've updated it, because up until last week, they didn't actually update this. So it was more difficult to see what that 20% uplift looked like. But now you can see so on that 20% uplift the demarcation line used to be 2950 but if an employer wants to put in an LMIA and they want it to be considered to be high wage, they now have to pay over $35.40 and so that basically pushes a whole bunch of occupations into the low wage category, which then allows that refusal to process to kick in. That's really what's happened. And then I don't know, Mark, I don't know I have wonderful employers that I work with, and even they cannot simply afford to pay temporary foreign workers 20% higher because they would have to pay everybody 20% higher, and they can't afford to do so. And so it effectively precludes and shuts down high wage lmias for a number of companies. Yes.
Mark Holthe 28:39
So that kind of at least from the standpoint of our post grad work permit holder friends, you know, those are, those are kind of the options. I'm going to push people back to the blog post that Alicia wrote that's on our website that discusses the the challenges. I'll just flip back here. It's entitled. How long can I stay in Canada after my work permit expires. You definitely want to go back and read this, because there is a bunch of additional information on what to do, or what the options are if maybe even a work permit isn't available. And sometimes there's, like we said, there's options work permits through through the open process, an open work permit, or through the temporary foreign worker program, but there are other options that may be available. And we're not going to dive in deep in this particular episode, because we covered it at length in the previous one that we did on this topic. But you know, switching to visitor status and the understanding, you know, and just, you know, Igor and I, we talked about this in the previous episode, the difference between, you know, visitor records and the temporary resident visas and things like that. But if you know there isn't an ability to stay Alicia, you know, this is a discussion and a conversation we have with many clients in our concert. Consultations, and we take it very seriously. We take a responsibility as advisors, legal advisors, very seriously. And for sure, when there are options, we provide them to our clients. But we're also realists, and we we know and feel that it's so important people get advice that that is accurate advice that is realistic advice that they can actually use to make good decisions. And at times, people have to look at their situation and come to a realization that it may be time now to consider leaving Canada when the work permit comes to an end. And so, you know, we've also talked about this in a previous episode, but for our post grad work permit holder friends, you know why? Why is voluntary departure beneficial?
Alicia Backman-Beharry 30:55
Yeah, a lot of times people come here right out of school, and then they do a master's degree and they haven't had a whole bunch of work experience in their home country. And if you're in that situation, and you don't have at least one year of high skilled foreign work experience within the last 10 years, you're missing out a lot on those foreign work experience points. And so if you manage to complete some degree or a diploma in Canada, and you've worked for at least a year, hopefully two years on that PGWP, once you've been in Canada and you are able to accumulate high skilled Canadian work experience, hopefully, if you do go home, then it's possible that you can gain a year of foreign work experience, and you can still use your Canadian work experience to qualify for CEC, as long as it's within a three year window. And so this is a strategy that you've talked about Mark, that we talk about often with our with our clients, to try to figure out, well, is there a way to actually maximize your express entry points by going back home and completing that year of foreign work experience? And that might be a best option.
Mark Holthe 31:59
And understand, you guys, that when you choose to abide and comply by the temporary conditions on your stay, it leaves the option open for you to come back. And we've also discussed in previous episodes the importance of not overstaying and the impact it can have on visa applications that you wish to submit to other countries in the world. And when you have an overstay in one country, it can have a very, very negative effect on your ability to apply for a visit visitor visa or a work permit to other countries. Canada has special information sharing agreements with Australia and New Zealand, with the United States and with the United Kingdom. And so if you're destined to one of those countries. It's it's pretty hard to conceal that you you know, if you had a refusal to Canada, or you overstayed in Canada when you're applying to another country, and obviously, you know, you're not going to want to conceal that's misrepresentation, but it will, it can and does come back to haunt you. So these are some of the things we wanted to address. And you know, as always, we are here to help and support you guys. These episodes, especially the time's up. Series are sponsored by the 2024 Express Entry accelerator. And if you've not yet had a chance to check this out. This is our preeminent DIY course that contains something that I absolutely love, which is our master classes. And we have them every two weeks, the next master clap as well as of the recording today, it's it's going to be this evening in about six hours. But every two weeks, we do another master class and and this has everything that you need to help get you right going down the right path, understanding how to complete things from A to Z and and then the master classes that I, that I run every Wednesday, every other Wednesday, from four to six, is your opportunity to come ask me anything that you like. So we love that, and we encourage you to check that out. You can just click on the link in the description. And Alicia, I don't know if you have any final closing remarks as we wrap this up. And then slide over to our other endeavor, which is our live Q A that we do on the Canadian immigration Institute YouTube channel, 10am mountain time every Wednesday. So if you're if you're listening to the podcast, make sure that you come and join us after each Wednesday to you know, to do that Q and A with us. So any last minute things Alicia you want to hit on before we wrap this up? Yeah, last thing
Alicia Backman-Beharry 34:31
PGWP holders is takeaways. I hope, go check your PGWP know when it expires, see whether there's a recapture of time. Does it say that it was only issued to passport expiry. Make sure you have a passport that's valid for the next period of time. If you are going to try to switch to another type of work permit, look at your options for open work permits. Look at your options for closed work permits. Look at your options for permanent residents, and if all else, there's no other pathway, then make sure that you go home in time so that you preserve. Of your legal status.
Mark Holthe 35:01
Absolutely. Thanks everybody for tuning in to this episode of the Canadian immigration podcast. We really appreciate your your support. Make sure you head over to wherever you're watching it. Leave us a review. It helps us to get noticed. Take care everyone.
Sponsor 35:18
Thank you for listening to the Canadian immigration podcast, your trusted source for information on Canadian immigration law, policy and practice. If you would like to book a legal consultation, please visit www dot Holthe law.com, you can also find lots more helpful information on our Canadian immigration Institute YouTube channel where you can join mark on one of his many Canadian immigration live Q and A's. See you soon, and all the best as you navigate this crazy world we call Canadian immigration. You.
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