Mark Holthe 0:04
Music. This episode of the Canadian immigration podcast is sponsored by the Canadian immigration Institute, one of the best sources of video content on Canadian immigration to help you navigate your way through the Canadian immigration process. Head on over to the YouTube channel, where there's tons of video content, and you can join mark yes myself in a number of live video streams, Q and A's all designed to help you navigate your way through this crazy Canadian immigration process. When you're done there, like and subscribe and then head on over to the Canadian Immigration institute.com where you can find all those awesome DIY courses that I've been talking about. Thank you, Canadian immigration Institute. You are the sponsor of this amazing little podcast. You
Unknown Speaker 0:59
music.
Sponsor 1:05
The Canadian immigration process can be complex and frustrating with the Canadian Immigration Department making it virtually impossible to speak to an officer. There are few places to turn to for trusted information. The Canadian immigration podcast was created to fill this void by offering the latest on immigration law, policy and practice. Please welcome ex immigration officer and Canadian immigration lawyer Mark Holthe as he is joined by industry leaders across Canada sharing insight to help you along your way.
Mark Holthe 1:51
Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Canadian immigration podcast. This is another in our time's up series. Now, technically, this is an issue that has been around for a long time, and it's not directly impacted by all the craziness that's happening within immigration, but today, Alicia and I are going to talk about this whole concept of a certificate of qualification, and whether or not you actually get those points. So Alicia, I think this is something we see a fair amount in our practice. Yeah,
Alicia Backman-Beharry 2:23
it's one of the questions that comes up again and again, because people often think, well, I'm working in a profession that requires provincial regulation, and therefore shouldn't I be able to claim these 50 Certificate of Qualification points in my Express Entry profile? And it's not quite that simple. There are a number of things that have to match before somebody can properly clean these points. And so if you're sitting there and you think you have these 50 points, and you've miscalculated, it's important for you to know that upfront,
Mark Holthe 2:54
absolutely, there's nothing worse than having your application in the queue, being all excited, knowing that you know you're going to get this, this nomination, me sorry, knowing that you're you're going to get your eapr approved, and you've already filed your bridging open work per and then you get a refusal because they're like, whoa. You don't have a certificate of qualification. So let's just take a quick look at here, at the comprehensive ranking system, so that people know what we're talking about. Then I'll show you exactly in the Express Entry profile where the question comes up that can trip people up. So if you look here, we have a bunch of things, including these skill transferability factors. Within the skill transferability factors, you can get up to 100 extra points within these categories for things like education, foreign work experience. But we also have a maximum of 50 points that are available for a certificate of qualification. Now remember, folks, you need to read carefully what's in these parentheses for people in trade, occupations, and if we go down to the more detailed breakdown, let's see if we can find it right here. It's actually a combination of factors. So if you're in a situation where you have a Certificate of Qualification with good official language proficiency, then you can have, if you're at a CLB 525, points if you're at a CLB seven, and this isn't all abilities, you can get up to 50 points with that certificate of qualification. So where does it come up? It comes up when you are completing I think it's this one. Here we go. So this is your profile, and I've created one just for myself. Here, when you go into the work history section, it asks about your primary occupation. Here, you choose your primary knock. But this option right here, option number two, says, Does Mark have a certificate of qualification from a Canadian province or territory, yes or no. So Alicia, when someone is, say, a nurse or a doctor, and they are clicking on yes here, and they say, Hey, I have a certificate of qualification from the provincial health body in Alberta or Ontario, what's the big deal? Is this not the same? Uh,
Alicia Backman-Beharry 5:00
no, it's not the same. And so you will see there's a little radio button on there, and there's a question mark, and if you click on that, it's going to give you some additional information. And this is also what it says when you're going through the online points calculator as well. It says a Certificate of Qualification lets people work in trade occupations. And so also, when we go to the IRCC, find
Mark Holthe 5:23
it. I've got so many things open here. Okay, here we go. There we go. This is the this is where you can go to check your CRS score. And it's the same radio button that Alicia was talking about that gets popped
Alicia Backman-Beharry 5:37
up. That's right. So whether you're doing it in your profile, or whether you're trying to calculate your points online through the IRCC points calculator tool, it's going to say it lets people work in some skilled trades. And I've often seen a number of people just gloss over those words, some skilled trades, and then they keep reading. They're saying, Yeah, I've got my provincial or territorial, you know, qualifications to work in my profession, but it's very important to know that professions are different than skilled trades. And so this is where it's important to go back to the IRCC website, where it talks about Federal Skilled Trades Program. And this is where the whole Certificate of Qualification points comes from. They only come if you are in one of these particular trade groups. And so we'll see that it clearly specifies its major group, 72 excluding some of the seven, two, sixes or 73828392, or nine, three, except for not 92932, subgroup. And it also includes some of the cooks or chefs, so minor group, 6320, and then the unit group, which is for chefs, 62200, so it is only specifically and excluded to these particular knocks where you would possibly be eligible for claiming those 50 points for a certificate of qualification. And if your language, again, like Mark said, if your language is not up to that CLB seven level across the board, then it would only be 25 points for that certificate of qualification. So keep in mind that it's only these particular skilled trades. And so we wanted to show people, okay, well, let's say you are a cook and you wanted to claim these points. How do you do this properly? Because one of the things that we do know that's going away, or that IRCC has said is going away, is the job offer points. And it's interesting in Federal Skilled Trades, because they say you either have to have a valid job offer or you have to have a certificate of qualification in order to be eligible for this Federal Skilled Trade sub sector. So this is where, when the job offer points go away, they will presumably update this, and only, the only thing that will be left will be the Certificate of Qualification points, presumably, and
Mark Holthe 7:59
this. And as people, if you're watching this versus listening, you know this list that we have here, these major group, 7273 like, what does all this mean? How do I know if my position fits into it? Well, you go to the National Occupational Classification System, and at the top, there is an ability to view hierarchy and structure. And when you go into the hierarchy and structure, you can actually do the breakdown. So if we're back, I've got too many again here to
Speaker 1 8:26
do the matrix. Sure. Yeah. I like just, let's add it to the table. Yeah.
Mark Holthe 8:31
So that. So if we look at the, if we look at the group 72 okay, what's included in group 72 so if we jump in here and we go to group seven, that's the first digit. Then we go to 72 well, it's technical trades and transport officers and controllers, and if you drop it down one more, then it has the the major groups that fit within that actual section. So that's anything that fits within here is going to be fair game. And when you click on 7206, except for the 726, yes, transportation officers and controllers. So you can drill all the way down to the not code that you've selected. If we go back, we can see it also includes 6320, so not all of six, just 6320, so what is that? So if we go back to six, that's in the sales and service. So six three, and once again, we're looking at 6320 so six three and then two and zero is cooks, butchers and bakers. So you can see this is how we can determine whether or not our position actually fits in there. Doctors, nurses are not within these groups, and this is the easiest way to determine if you have the ability, right off the bat, to to enter into this you know, this little journey to determine your Certificate of Qualification, eligibility. Okay.
Alicia Backman-Beharry 10:02
And then the next key thing is, okay, well, if you are within one of these not codes. So when we're talking about our national occupation classification codes, we're looking at those digits. And so the first two digits are going to be important to figure out your major grouping. And then the minor grouping is when we get further and further along in the digit. So for example, for cooks, it's 6320, and then there's another zero, right? That's the full five digit code. And then for chefs, it's 62200, so let's say somebody is working as a chef, and they want to figure out, well, how do I go and get regulated by my provincial authority? And the way that I normally take a look at this is I normally go to Job Bank and search for the occupation. And so if you were to go to Job Bank, and I normally go to the labor market information, and then I go to job profiles, and I'd click on that, and I would then put in the job title. And so I'd put in Cook, or you could put in the not code, but it'll pull it up either way, and you'll see, here we go. Here's Cook, 63200, you don't even have to put the location. You can just click search, and then it'll bring you to the main page for cooks in Canada, and it's got a summary, and it's got a bunch of things, but I always toggle over to the tab on requirements, because this is where you figure out what are the mandatory regulated occupations. And there are a number of mandatory regulated occupations, for example, doctors and lawyers and dentists, all of those are mandatory regulated but remember, they're not trades, they're professions. And so this is where, if we are wanting to look at Certificate of Qualification points, we do need to make sure that it's a skilled trade. And then we need to make sure that if you want to claim points, you are properly going to the regulatory body. So we thought we'd give an example for BC. So let's pretend we have a cook who is working in BC who wants to try to go get their skilled trades designation in BC. And so if you look on on the job bank, it'll link you directly to it says, yep, in BC, cooks are a regulated trade, and the regulatory body is skilled trades BC, and it's going to bring you skilled trades BC, and it's going to say, Okay, well, find your trade. You'd have to go look up your trade and go through the process for becoming regulated or having your certificate of qualification. So basically, the province recognizes that you meet all the requirements for in this case, you can say a cook, level three, Red Seal designation. So here's how we would figure out, okay, this is what BC requires. And so if you were a cook and you wanted to properly claim your Certificate of Qualification points, you would need to go through contact the regulator skilled trades BC, make sure that you've got all of your experience and education and hours assessed and that you're meeting all the requirements. Many provinces also have some sort of exam or challenge exam, as well as a way to sign off that you have accumulated those hours in your in your skilled trade. So that's what you would do in order to be able to claim those points. And it's important that you actually have your Certificate of Qualification before you say yes on your Express Entry profile to try to claim those points. So we thought we'd just do a brief, little redacted snapshot of what a Certificate of Qualification looks like, so that people understand they have the right document. So for example, this is what the skilled trades BC, certificate of qualification for a red seal cook would look like. And you would need to have this in hand before you go and try to claim express entry points
Mark Holthe 13:39
for it. And this, you know, Alicia, this is, obviously, this is what you're going to upload into the spot that's in the in your personal document checklist, within Express Entry. But many, many people make that mistake, and more so than ever, ever before, you do not get a second chance with this stuff. When individuals work permits are expiring, and the government is doing everything in their power to restrict the ability to extend those permits. You've got to get it right the first time. And when you're claiming 50 points, that's a lot of points. And like you alluded to Alicia, they're in the process any day now, of dropping the hammer officially on the extra job offer points for arranged employment, the 50 and 200 respective points that are available and for individuals that are looking at, you know, options. The challenge for international graduates is in many provinces, it's very challenging to go through a trade program and get trade certification on post grad open work permits. Now you can initiate the process, and for some of you, there may be time to actually go through and do it, but the challenge is this combination of school and work that is often required in order to get your trade certification, and like we were showing here, each each provincial body got. Returns the particular trade in that province. Red seals are a special certification that allows individuals to have their trade credential or certification recognized across across Canada. That's why it's called the Red Seal. So many cases, provinces will have both a red seal and a regular trade certification. It doesn't really matter which one you go through, as long as it's a provincial regulated trade and you have that trade certification for at least that province. But we've seen so many people whose applications have been thwarted, I guess is the best way to describe it, and all of their plans messed up because they assumed that trade certification was exactly that. And you have to read the fine print. So if you're in your profile you reach this stage, does Mark have a certificate of qualify, qualification from a Canadian province or territory? I wish it would say a trade certificate of qualification. I know, you know, it would be so much easier, because then people will realize, well, wait a minute, I'm a doctor, but I'm not a trades person and and so be very careful. If you're clicking Yes, here it will then ask the province or territory of issue. In our case, our example was BC occupation associated with a certificate of qualification. Why Alicia? If I was going to develop this, I would only give the knock codes of the ones that are acceptable. But, oh, no, that's too much work. So you have to be very, very careful. And remember, with our efforts to try to show you here, it has to be within one of these groups. And just so you people are wondering, well, where does it say this? Where does it say this? Go? This is the easiest place is to go to the Federal Skilled Trade Program. Just search for that. And ironically, Alicia boy, a Federal Skilled Trade draw alone hasn't happened for years. We do have the category based trades, but usually individuals, you know, that's one option. Theoretically, it's possible for someone to be a trades worker and go through CEC or a general draw. It's possible. But usually the problem with trades is that the trade certification is not assessed through one of the educational credential assessment agencies, and so you're not going to get any points for it, even if you did, say, a two year program to obtain your welding certification, because of the nature of the work and school kind of hybridization that exists in getting trade certification the educational credential bodies, like Wes and I guess, and all those other ones, they just don't, don't assess them for points. And this
Alicia Backman-Beharry 17:49
is where it's super important. So if it seemed on this page, if you keep scrolling down to the certificate of qualification, you'll see that, you know, people either have to have a job offer or a certificate of qualification. And so when you look at what that certificate of qualification is after the work hours, you keep going down. And then here we go. So here's the job offer or certificate of qualification. If we're looking at the certificate of qualification, there are two different ways you could either be certified by a province or territory, or some trades are actually federally regulated. And so it does give you this list, a hyperlinked list of provincial or territorial body that governs trades in provinces. So it can, you can kind of do the drop down when you click on that little triangle, and it'll kind of link you to BC skilled trades. It'll link you to Alberta trades. And then underneath all of this, it does also say, if your trade is federally regulated, then there is a website through the Canadian Information Center for International credentials that it'll link you to. So there are a few occupations that are federally regulated for trade certification, but many of them are provincially
Mark Holthe 19:05
and remember, when it comes to express entry one, when you're filling in your information, it's a certificate of qualification that they're looking for. So Certificate of Qualification with good official language proficiency, and those two have to be combined to then get you the 25 or the extra 50 points. And like Alicia said, we don't know how things are going to play out with job offers or and, you know, and how the impact of that is within this whole process. But ultimately, if you can demonstrate that you have a, you know, for example, a cook, you've got that red seal or certificate of qualification for British Columbia, and you can demonstrate that you have a nice little certificate just like this, then you may very well be good to go. But as always, Alicia, if individuals are uncertain, it it pays to just book a consult and help us to sort it out for you. All right, so do I get Certificate of Qualification points? Yes, maybe, maybe. Thanks, Alicia, we'll wrap this one up for today. Take care everyone, and if you have a topic that you'd like us to cover in our time's up series, or any topic of interest to all of the vast people that are vying for the so so limited and remote possibilities for PR, we're here to help you and assist you, so just reach out. All right, take care. We're signing off.
Sponsor 20:29
Thank you for listening to the Canadian immigration podcast. Your trusted source for information on Canadian immigration law, policy and practice. If you would like to book a legal consultation, please visit www dot Holthe law.com you can also find lots more helpful information on our Canadian immigration Institute YouTube channel, where you can join mark on one of his many Canadian immigration live Q and A's See you soon, and all the best As you navigate this crazy world we call Canadian immigration and.
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